Comments on: Letter: Civil discourse event a step in the right direction

By: Brady Narloch

Brady Narloch — Thu, 31 Dec 2009 10:47:58 +0000

On “Catholic Identity v Freedom of Expression” at UST:
I am not a postmodern relativist or any derivative thereof. Rather, I believe in a consistent standard of truth for all humans. However, I don’t believe any human possesses a masterful knowledge of this standard (especially me). This is because experience has shown me that I am not perfect (alas!) and am quite susceptible to be wrong under almost any circumstances (alas!). Moreover, I have strong reason to believe all living humans are the same boat as me. Therefore, I believe everyone must assume a position of humility and charity when sincerely discussing anything of even minor human significance if the goal should be truth.
This does not mean we cannot hold or vigilantly express beliefs. Rather, it entails we must be equally vigilant in researching and challenging our views as we are in expressing or (gulp) enforcing them upon others. To do otherwise would violate the aforementioned tenant of humility. I should add that I never find an appeal to authority terminal in the examination process- we must think for ourselves in the end and trust our own God-given power of reason.
So I believe our deepest held views should be fairly challenged. Would an able-bodied boxing champ retain his stature if he never fought again?…

By: Michael Blissenbach

Michael Blissenbach — Tue, 29 Dec 2009 16:33:54 +0000

Corey, et.al.,
I, too extend my thanks for the civil, intellectual manner of this discussion.
I think that one of the dangers of inviting a speaker who expresses viewpoints contrary to Catholic doctine speaking at St. Thomas, or any Catholic institution for that matter, is the strong potential of scandalizing the faithful.
The University of St. Thomas, as a Catholic university, is a clearly recognizable Catholic institution. As such, if it were to host a speaker espousing views contrary to what the Catholic Church teaches, unless that was as part of a debate/discussion where Catholic viewpoints on that topic were clearly articulated by another speaker, hosting the speaker with views not in line with Catholic teaching could give the impression that what the speaker in question said was in line with Catholic teaching.
Hosting a speaker presenting viewpoints not in line with Catholic teachings in a context where Catholic teachings on the topic are not clearly articulated isn’t worth it if it will lead souls astray. Such an action would be the equivalent of a farmer letting a fox into his coup without warning the chickens that foxes are dangerous, knowing full well that the fox will likely drag off and kill at least one of his chickens.

By: Corey Dahl

Corey Dahl — Tue, 22 Dec 2009 21:24:30 +0000

Michael,

I am not trying to engage in a debate about transgender issues, but since you mentioned Debra Davis, what is wrong with exposing students to a point of view expressed by a transgendered individual? There is a good chance that a graduate will encounter a transgendered person in the workplace, and without having some understanding of living as a transgendered person is like, that graduate will have no idea what to do. Part of civil discourse is to expose student to all or as many viewpoints as possible, not just pick-and-choose which viewpoints contrary to Church teachings are worth entertaining. Part of what the university should be doing is allowing students’ minds to extend beyond the comfort of the “St. Thomas bubble.”

Stefan – This is a wonderful discourse. Participants are freely expressing their viewpoints without resorting to mudslinging or pointless attacks. Bravo, everyone.

By: Michael Blissenbach

Michael Blissenbach — Tue, 22 Dec 2009 20:24:22 +0000

Also, how would applying the Archbishop’s directive “pervert and destroy” UST? I don’t understand why you think that would happen. Unless I’m mistaken. I think Ave Maria University and the Catholic University of America have similar policies regarding speakers, and they’re doing just fine.
Also, wouldn’t such a directive reverse the ongoing secularization of UST?

By: Michael Blissenbach

Michael Blissenbach — Tue, 22 Dec 2009 20:21:52 +0000

James,
I’m curious, what section of Ex Corde Ecclesiae do you presume the directive would violate if extended to St. Thomas?
Also, I am not advocating suppression of non-Catholic viewpoints on campus. There is plenty of exposure to non-Catholic viewpoints in UST classes. I read Kant, Nietzsche, Mill, and others in my philosophy classes, and one of my biology professors was an outspoken atheist.
I had more than my fair share of exposure to secular arguments, and that was a good thing, but I didn’t need to attend non-Catholic speaker seminars in order to gain that exposure.
We run the danger of scandalizing the faithful, oftentimes, when we host non-Catholic speakers at UST. Having a non-Catholic and a Catholic academic argue against each other in a debate on campus I would have no problem with. However, I don’t think hosting Debra Davis on campus was a prudent decision.

By: James Heaney

James Heaney — Tue, 22 Dec 2009 20:02:40 +0000

Mike,

I *always* read your posts carefully. I ask only that you do the same.

The fact that we may (rarely) have to defer to the judgment of a bishop does *not* mean that we must agree with his judgment, nor that we may not protest an unwise or unjust decision. Further, you assume that this policy already applies to UST. That is not at all clear. Further, I would argue that this policy, if extended here, would violate the long Catholic tradition of the university, worldwide and within this diocese, and would implicitly violate Ex Corde just as the Board of Trustees infamy did.

As for the ongoing malformation of the youth, the traditional church response has been to create new institutions to address new needs or reform broken ones — not to pervert and destroy those institutions already functioning more or less as they’re supposed to. We must address this problem, but the answer is *not* to turn our university into a sectisity.

And, yes, the exploration of faith is ongoing, and the Catholic Studies program of which you and I are both members fills that need impressively. It is an important part of the university, and it makes UST special. But suppressing all that *opposes* CS on campus, as you suggest, would be just as destructive as suppressing CS itself.

By: Michael Blissenbach

Michael Blissenbach — Tue, 22 Dec 2009 17:31:53 +0000

Also, James, until the renewal of the Catholic elementary and secondary education systems comes to fruition, I would be highly hesistant to rely on most of these institutions to form Catholic children in the faith. And, if we don’t form them in Catholic colleges, where else are they going to come to understand their Catholic faith? Wasn’t Catholic Studies itself founded in part in response to a new generation of Catholics seeking to grow deeper in their Catholic faith? That’s partly what drew me to switch to a Catholic Studies and Philosophy major from one in Biology.

By: Stefan Wolf

Stefan Wolf — Tue, 22 Dec 2009 17:26:42 +0000

In response to the argument that opposing viewpoints can be taught in the classroom, I must respectfully disagree. As a future educator, I have learned that when something is taught in a classroom, it is taught in a sterile, controlled environment, much like a lab. This is all fine and dandy until one actually has to apply the knowledge. The most organic, truest form of education is through experience. If someone were to see an “anti Catholic” speaker (I say this in quotation because that itself can be a very hotly debated item), it would present them with an educational experience far greater than if someone were to simply talk about that person in the classroom. A teacher cannot teach and experience.

Secondly, in response to the assertion that we, as Catholics, have a duty to do as the bishop says, I must also disagree. We have our free will and can choose to do something contrary if we believe it is the right thing. If a person tells me to do something that is against my set of values, etc., I don’t care who they are…my internal compass trumps outside influence.

Finally, I must say, this civil discourse we are having here is quite nice, is it not? :)

By: Michael Blissenbach

Michael Blissenbach — Tue, 22 Dec 2009 17:25:37 +0000

James,
If you examine my earlier posts, I said that so long as the Archbishop is not teaching, preaching, or acting contrary to what the Church teaches or the wishes of the Holy Father, we should abide by his directives. Archbishop Nienstedt, I would argue, has done neither with this directive, and hence I acquiesce to His Excellency’s judgment on this matter.
With regard to Board of Trustees’ decision in the Fall of 2007, that could be considered going against Ex Corde Ecclesiae, an authoritative Papal Encyclical, and that’s a different matter entirely.

By: Michael Blissenbach

Michael Blissenbach — Tue, 22 Dec 2009 14:34:00 +0000

“it seems to me like the best way to learn how to defend your faith is to be exposed to alternative view points- I don’t think you can defend anything unless you truly understand what you’re defending it against.”
Kathryn, I agree that exposure to alternative viewpoints is important, but I also think a person must be well-formed in his/her faith before he/she explores such alternative viewpoints. One must first understand well what he/she is defending before one can credibly defend it. Both of these can and do happen in a classroom context.
I was fortunate that during my time at St. Thomas, I gained a thorough understanding of who the Church is and what she teaches, as well as exposure to arguments and viewpoints contrary to what the Church teaches, and how, as a Catholic, to respond to those arguments and viewpoints.
However, as postmodernism is by far the dominant viewpoint in the world today, it is very easy to gain a thorough understanding of it, just by living in the world. Since what the Catholic Church teaches is contrary to postmodernist doctrine, it is very hard outside of a Catholic university to gain exposure to the rich treasure of Catholic scholarship that has been handed down for ages. This is why it is crucial that Catholics should first be formed in…